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	<title>Comments on: Win Some, Lose Some</title>
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	<link>http://blog.cwillse.net/2009/02/26/win-some-lose-some/</link>
	<description>on the war between the pitiful teachers and the splendid kids</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:31:31 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://blog.cwillse.net/2009/02/26/win-some-lose-some/comment-page-1/#comment-518</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cwillse.net/?p=282#comment-518</guid>
		<description>LOL the last line of your comment!

I know this is a side point, but yes I also have come to some uses of psychoanalytic theory with a good amount of trepidation. My feeling is that the ideas can be a bit mobile, and taken from their strict Freudean roots and the problems Freud brings. But nonetheless there is some kind of prescriptive feeling in any use of pscyhoanalytic theory, and that makes me nervous (or neurotic?!) as well.

And re: intentionality. Thank you for articulating this really clearly, it&#039;s helpful for me, as well as pointing to the possibility of theorizing a &quot;dual structural&quot; approach. I just found out there&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.waynemorsecenter.uoregon.edu/Racial_Formation_09/home.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a symposium at the U of Oregon&lt;/a&gt; next month commemorating the 25th anniversary of Omi &amp; Winant&#039;s book. The line-up looks pretty stellar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL the last line of your comment!</p>
<p>I know this is a side point, but yes I also have come to some uses of psychoanalytic theory with a good amount of trepidation. My feeling is that the ideas can be a bit mobile, and taken from their strict Freudean roots and the problems Freud brings. But nonetheless there is some kind of prescriptive feeling in any use of pscyhoanalytic theory, and that makes me nervous (or neurotic?!) as well.</p>
<p>And re: intentionality. Thank you for articulating this really clearly, it&#8217;s helpful for me, as well as pointing to the possibility of theorizing a &#8220;dual structural&#8221; approach. I just found out there&#8217;s <a href="http://www.waynemorsecenter.uoregon.edu/Racial_Formation_09/home.html" rel="nofollow">a symposium at the U of Oregon</a> next month commemorating the 25th anniversary of Omi &amp; Winant&#8217;s book. The line-up looks pretty stellar.</p>
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		<title>By: Abigail A. Sewell</title>
		<link>http://blog.cwillse.net/2009/02/26/win-some-lose-some/comment-page-1/#comment-516</link>
		<dc:creator>Abigail A. Sewell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 09:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cwillse.net/?p=282#comment-516</guid>
		<description>i got your reference to &quot;trauma&quot; and feel the Scatterplot reaction was indicative of the sensitive nature of the discussion prior to you. i don&#039;t like the psychoanalytic roots of the term, but it captures the individual and collective impact of racial stratification summarily. it seems as if the Scatterplot poster took your statement to mean that you were blaming Scatterplot (as a Sociology representative) for the failures of society to address the realities and consequences of racial inequality. he/she was hurt. understandable. no one wants to be called a &quot;racist&quot; explicitly or implicitly, especially people who feel they themselves are well-intentioned.

this last point leads me to an understanding that must gain currency in contemporary America if we are to move beyond ourselves as a &quot;nation of cowards&quot; (AG Eric Holder, Feb. 18, &#039;09): &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;racism is not about intentions&lt;/b.&lt;/i&gt;. in fact, the most virulent forms of racism occur invisibly, as an inert structural force. this inert structural force embodies both &lt;b&gt;cultural symbolisms of whole peoples &lt;/b&gt; (e.g., blacks as monkeys (see Joseph Grave&#039;s The Emperor&#039;s New Clothing) or blacks eat watermelons or Jews are rats (see Maus)) and &lt;b&gt;the context of lived realities&lt;/b&gt; (e.g., racial residential segregation, racial differences in the quality of educational opportunities, racial profiling). 

yes, some racism is rooted in intention, but if we narrow the definition of racism as such we miss out on the transinstitutional and multidimensional nature and consequences of race and racial hierarchy. DuBois in The Philadelphia Negro and Omi and Winant in Racial Formation in the United States are two bodies of work that use this dual structural approach (cultural symbolisms and lived experiences); although, the blame for the articulation of the approach presented here, if proven to be navel grazing, florid, and/or garbage, should be put on me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i got your reference to &#8220;trauma&#8221; and feel the Scatterplot reaction was indicative of the sensitive nature of the discussion prior to you. i don&#8217;t like the psychoanalytic roots of the term, but it captures the individual and collective impact of racial stratification summarily. it seems as if the Scatterplot poster took your statement to mean that you were blaming Scatterplot (as a Sociology representative) for the failures of society to address the realities and consequences of racial inequality. he/she was hurt. understandable. no one wants to be called a &#8220;racist&#8221; explicitly or implicitly, especially people who feel they themselves are well-intentioned.</p>
<p>this last point leads me to an understanding that must gain currency in contemporary America if we are to move beyond ourselves as a &#8220;nation of cowards&#8221; (AG Eric Holder, Feb. 18, &#8217;09): <b><i>racism is not about intentions</i></b>. in fact, the most virulent forms of racism occur invisibly, as an inert structural force. this inert structural force embodies both <b>cultural symbolisms of whole peoples </b> (e.g., blacks as monkeys (see Joseph Grave&#8217;s The Emperor&#8217;s New Clothing) or blacks eat watermelons or Jews are rats (see Maus)) and <b>the context of lived realities</b> (e.g., racial residential segregation, racial differences in the quality of educational opportunities, racial profiling). </p>
<p>yes, some racism is rooted in intention, but if we narrow the definition of racism as such we miss out on the transinstitutional and multidimensional nature and consequences of race and racial hierarchy. DuBois in The Philadelphia Negro and Omi and Winant in Racial Formation in the United States are two bodies of work that use this dual structural approach (cultural symbolisms and lived experiences); although, the blame for the articulation of the approach presented here, if proven to be navel grazing, florid, and/or garbage, should be put on me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessie</title>
		<link>http://blog.cwillse.net/2009/02/26/win-some-lose-some/comment-page-1/#comment-512</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cwillse.net/?p=282#comment-512</guid>
		<description>Watermelons and chimps have racist implications with real impact for actual human beings?!  I&#039;m shocked, shocked I say.  

I like fblogging as a neologism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Watermelons and chimps have racist implications with real impact for actual human beings?!  I&#8217;m shocked, shocked I say.  </p>
<p>I like fblogging as a neologism.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Livingston</title>
		<link>http://blog.cwillse.net/2009/02/26/win-some-lose-some/comment-page-1/#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Livingston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cwillse.net/?p=282#comment-507</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m one of about only four people on Scatterplot arguing that the Post&#039;s denial of deliberate racism was plausible, but I&#039;d agree with mt that there&#039;s no non-racist explanation of the watermelons (why watermelons and not pumpkins or any other vegetation) and that the mayor&#039;s denial is just a flat out lie.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m one of about only four people on Scatterplot arguing that the Post&#8217;s denial of deliberate racism was plausible, but I&#8217;d agree with mt that there&#8217;s no non-racist explanation of the watermelons (why watermelons and not pumpkins or any other vegetation) and that the mayor&#8217;s denial is just a flat out lie.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://blog.cwillse.net/2009/02/26/win-some-lose-some/comment-page-1/#comment-506</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cwillse.net/?p=282#comment-506</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know that I had a strict 1-to-1 analogy in mind, but thinking about your comment led me to this:

I think that both the Post cartoon and the watermelon email respond to the threat Obama&#039;s presidency poses to the dominant racial order. I think they both do so by putting Obama/African Americans back in their &quot;proper&quot; racially-subordinated place. I think both do this regardless of whatever else they might do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know that I had a strict 1-to-1 analogy in mind, but thinking about your comment led me to this:</p>
<p>I think that both the Post cartoon and the watermelon email respond to the threat Obama&#8217;s presidency poses to the dominant racial order. I think they both do so by putting Obama/African Americans back in their &#8220;proper&#8221; racially-subordinated place. I think both do this regardless of whatever else they might do.</p>
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		<title>By: mt</title>
		<link>http://blog.cwillse.net/2009/02/26/win-some-lose-some/comment-page-1/#comment-505</link>
		<dc:creator>mt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 02:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cwillse.net/?p=282#comment-505</guid>
		<description>Is there is sufficiently reasonable non-racist interpretation of the watermelon postcard to make it analogous to the NY Post cartoon? I don&#039;t see one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there is sufficiently reasonable non-racist interpretation of the watermelon postcard to make it analogous to the NY Post cartoon? I don&#8217;t see one.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://blog.cwillse.net/2009/02/26/win-some-lose-some/comment-page-1/#comment-504</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 21:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cwillse.net/?p=282#comment-504</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I got it on a listserv last summer. Flogstserved?

(It was a battle over whether our not our identity-group conference social should be organized around the gay marriage supreme court decision in California. You can imagine what side I was on. There do now exist on the internet some rather wonderful photos of me drunkenly getting the first slice of the social&#039;s celebratory wedding cake. Those were the days...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I got it on a listserv last summer. Flogstserved?</p>
<p>(It was a battle over whether our not our identity-group conference social should be organized around the gay marriage supreme court decision in California. You can imagine what side I was on. There do now exist on the internet some rather wonderful photos of me drunkenly getting the first slice of the social&#8217;s celebratory wedding cake. Those were the days&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://blog.cwillse.net/2009/02/26/win-some-lose-some/comment-page-1/#comment-503</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cwillse.net/?p=282#comment-503</guid>
		<description>I have given up on purple prose, and taken up inventing words. See reply to Emily&#039;s comment, above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have given up on purple prose, and taken up inventing words. See reply to Emily&#8217;s comment, above.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://blog.cwillse.net/2009/02/26/win-some-lose-some/comment-page-1/#comment-502</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cwillse.net/?p=282#comment-502</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reading suggestion, and for checking up on me. I&#039;m fine -- an occupational hazard of writing online, right? Plus it inspired me to invent a new word to describe getting taken to task on the internet: flog + blog = fblog! As in, &quot;Whoa, dude, you really got a fblogging over at Scatterplot!&quot; I am open to suggestions regarding pronunciation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reading suggestion, and for checking up on me. I&#8217;m fine &#8212; an occupational hazard of writing online, right? Plus it inspired me to invent a new word to describe getting taken to task on the internet: flog + blog = fblog! As in, &#8220;Whoa, dude, you really got a fblogging over at Scatterplot!&#8221; I am open to suggestions regarding pronunciation.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://blog.cwillse.net/2009/02/26/win-some-lose-some/comment-page-1/#comment-501</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cwillse.net/?p=282#comment-501</guid>
		<description>Eh, where&#039;s the florid prose? Anyway, thanks for the references and for your good cheer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh, where&#8217;s the florid prose? Anyway, thanks for the references and for your good cheer.</p>
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